Wednesday, October 19, 2005

korean men

Why is it that Korean men do not date foreign women?

I still have not found a clear response to this question. In no way am I against interracial dating, marriage, or whatever may exist in between that constitutes relations between cultures. After all, I am a product of an interracial relationship and the embodiment of possibility that can occur between two individuals that would, in many ways, seem to be completly different. Love... holds the potential to create amazing and unexpected things.

However, in the extended stint I've had here in Korea, I still don't understand why I can give you so many examples of relationships (successful and unsuccessful) between foreign (white) dudes and Korean women, but I still haven't seen even one between a foreign woman and a Korean guy. AND when people ask me if I'm into dating Korean guys, I have to tell them that I really don't know.

What is that keeps Korean guys from dating women from other cultures?
In all instances when I've posed this question (to foreign men, to Korean women, to foreign women, to Korean men) I never seem to get an answer. It always seems to come down to "I don't know." The most I've ever gotten out of anyone seems to be that foreign women play a far too dominant role in relationships, that foreign women aren't as "sweet" as Korean women, that you would never be able take them home to mom so why bother, or that Korean men are simply too intimidated by the language barrier. Still, none of these seem like they are good enough reasons. People still fall in love regardless of these silly little things, or even despite big ones like a cultural difference.

In my experience the foreign guys I know dating Korean women all seem to be dating really amazing Korean women. These women are intelligent. They're obscure, rare, and completely exceptional. They speak English quite well. They have views that deviate from the Korean cultural norms. They are ridiculously beautiful and adore their man despite the foreign dude's beer gut or butt ugliness. You can be bald, fat, stupid, ignorant, etc. and still get the hottest chick on the block. AND (amazingly) this is (somehow) a power move (regardless of its lack of popularity with friends and family) on the Korean woman's part. They say, foreign guys have bigger dicks and supposedly treat them better. If the women aren't of the amazing variety (gorgous wine importers who look at Japanese porn) then these women are complete toys to these men--the less English (or any language for that matter), the better. I may be over-simplifying things a bit, or mushing them around, but you get what I mean.

Okay. Fine. Then, what is it that I, Miss Koco, would have to do, to even interest one of these exceptional English speaking creatures of the male variety? I know they exist. Must I play the part of the weak, submissive, vulnerable, giggling, whinny princess? It seems strange to me though. A culture of men who are "supposed to be" dominant must be filled with bottoms, wishing that some mistress would come along and play out all their secret fantasies... and if that's not the case there must be at least a few freaks eager to break from the norms. Then again, maybe that's just my western view on the whole subject.

I don't know...

Alright, white dues. I won't get mad at you. I'm just curious why it's like this. Tell me. AND there must be non-Korean women in relationships with Korean guys. Where are you? What is it like for you? What are your challenges? How did that happen? Why do you think that Korean guys are so hesitant to date foreign women, but it is so common when the gender changes? And (do I dare ask) what happens in homosexual relationships here with regards to foreigners?

21 comments:

Anonymous said...

I know of only myself and another caucasian who date Korean men. I have been dating Korean men for the past 3 years, although I have always prefered Asians in general. Anyways to answer your question, it is not easy dating a foreigner. Korean Americans are one species, Koreans are another. Korean American men are easy to date. Korean Men, even if of our generation and liberal, are still kind of stuck in the old traditions. I am in a very serious relationship with a Korean who considers himself liberal. Yet we still had many obstacles to overcome while dating. To keep it short, Koreans are raised to belive that you have to keep the bloodline Korean. His family is quite hip and they really like me, YET they still prefer him to be with a Korean women. Again, he knows how his Korean upbringing is not always conducive to dating a caucasian yet he still finds himself slipping into his old ways while in Korea. Sometimes he gets upset cause I am not his maid or when I question his decisions due to honorification. Sometimes he yells(although I have learned this is just his temper and is harmless), but this was how he was raised. My boyfriend knows that dating a Korean girl would be much easier and less complicated cause they are the subservient, care-taking, great cook. Yet he prefers caucasian women becuase he is not attracted to Korean women's figures. Re: Korean women, I hear that they date Foreigners so they can get Free English Lessons and Free dinners. I am not saying this is what I always hear, but that is what i have heard. The other reason I suspect goes back to the fact that a good education is a priority in Korea. If a Korean woman can meet a foreigner, perhaps he can help her go abroad to get her that much closer to a better education for her or her children.

My experience seems to highlight that the men I attract do like that more subservient female. There are always exceptions to the rule, but in the Korean male mind they make the decisions. They may not be up for domination in general, that is my guess.

Re: gay relationships based on what I have seen with my friend who dates foreigners, there is nothing special to report there in light of the gay factor. Obviously their parents prefer them NOT to be gay as well as to stick with Koreans.

Anonymous said...

From my little experience, there are Korean forums and chatrooms that imply Koreans are open-minded about sex, although after talking I have realized they are actually VERY conservative. Perhaps they could use someone like you to educate them about what they are missing out on.

Kurios1978 said...

I know of one couple.... A Korean man, and a Australian woman. They did the Korean speed-marriage and everything too. Less than 1 year of dating and off to the wedding halls!

mehdi said...

Dear Miss Koco

I have had the same exact thoughts as what you have written.

as for the following:

'They are ridiculously beautiful and adore their man despite the foreign dude's beer gut or butt ugliness. You can be bald, fat, stupid, ignorant, etc'

dammit, why didnt it work for me?? I ticked every box in the above...

'You can be bald, fat, stupid, ignorant'

Korean women don't like me, although a lot of them have approached me in the past, esp in the vicinity of womens universities. vanity is very big in the Korean female culture, the way I see it, Korea is very advanced but in some cultural aspects it is very shallow, I have seen very similar traits in many other asian cultures in aus and abroad, particularily in own culture.

you have some brilliant thoughts.

문대기 said...

hey, woman. I really gald to hear your comment. I drop by here finding foreign view about Korean men whatever it would be. ugly, cute, handsome, violent, vicious, emotional...
I'm a university student in seoul sungkyunkwan. And I really want to get to know some foreign girls like you. really full of curiosity.
But with these short of English.. It would be really hard to get to know somethings in their heart.. what they mean.. what they think..


Actually, I can give you some gists about Korean men, Korean society, Korean culture. First, Korea now is going through some exceptional, radical social change. With rapid economic development, nowadays having political, cultural changes, there is huge gap between traditional Korea, and emerging Korea. So having hard time to adjust both of them. You may see some old Koreans who are very typical appearance like japanese, or chinese, and you may also see those who are young, quite tall, reallativly small face young guys.

Korean women are very beautiful in the eyes of western men. I think so. Apart from those of some powerful beauty, they have some nice well proportioned body, tall women, or small women all seem to be reallatively in good shape.

But they are weak in their bare face without make-up. And they are spending most of the time in front of the mirror, thinking about only romantic realationships with some guys, how they are treated well..like that. so I, admittedly, have to say that among them are just like dolls. You may have hard time to work with them. (not all of Korean women...)

Korean men.. They must have been spending most of the time in sitting and studying. In high school, there are relatively, substantially lack of physical activitys. only studing from 9am to 10pm. their parents may not allow them to exercise. That's the reason why Korean men, rellatively less beautiful than Korean women.

Like my writing, our the very problem is English.. Spending 10years studying English, still they don't speak even a word well. that's why they spend huge amount of money on teaching English.

Yeah. Like I said we have many problems, but, still hope to proceed to furthur abroad, cause the social change seems to want us to expand ourselves.

Youngsters would be different. with so many people to interact, fight, compete(In seoul, too many people walk on the steet in jongro, Kangnam, you imagine it's like a gridlock of human)they have been taught to be lower themselves. Even though they are humble, they have the energy and passions toward what they want. I think they would be much better given English fluency.

With hard economic recession(actually not recession, but slowing down growth)there are not so much people who are in love in my school, even among native Korean people. even can't get to the girls in Korea, How can we easilly approach to forign women?
Maybe when some economic confidence is on, that may be different. Cause when we approach some girls, we determine to be with them to the death, bearing all the responsibility, maybe that's what we have been taught, and Korea girls want to be treated like...

Rebecca said...

Hi, I'd like to post a comment myself here. I'm an Australian women in a relationship with a Korean man and I completely disagree with some of the comments made about both Western women and Korean men.

The Korean men who I have met through my boyfriend (all of whom were born and raised in Korea) are all attracted to some Western women, but are simply too embarrassed to approach them because they are afraid of making a mistake when they attempt to communicate in English!! However, it is true that the type of Western women they appear to be attracted to are like myself - Western features, but petite, small figure.

Further, I completely disagree with the stereotype of Western women as bossy, ball-breaking harridans, which appears to be the view expressed on this page. Western women can be just as nurturing and kind as Asian women, (it simply depends in what environment they're raised in) in addition to being empowered and intelligent.

Men and women bring different qualities to every relationship, which is a positive thing. For example, even though I'm a uni student also working a 35 hour week, I still find the time to cook for my boyfriend and make him comfortable, whilst he drives me to and collects me from work/uni every day no matter how tired he is.

Anyway, after all this rambling my point is that the reason you may not have seen many relationships between Korean men and Western women is because of the stereotypes both sides make about each other, and which appear to be expressed on this page!!

Anonymous said...

my name is Ant and my penis is six inches long when its hard, Miss Koco its hard to believe that Im well hung in Asia compared to the men,lol. My girlfriend in America always told me I was little Above average...Guess she was right...Thanks Shelly ;)

misskoco said...

Ant, glad to hear you're well hung...

Great comments. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

I am mixed, balck and white and I am married to a Korean man. He's 36 years old, I'm 26. He came to America with his mother and his brother when he was 17. His mother did prefer him to be with a Korean woman, infact she set up various flights and meetings for him to go back to Korea to meet his potential bride but He wanted nothing to do with that. When he saw me, he admitted that his initial attraction was to what he saw on my chest (mind you, I was totally covered and at work). Nevertheless, he noticed and he made the decision that regardless of the language barrier or his steriotypes against people of the African race, he was going to MARRY me.

One thing that I told him when we were dating about three months in when we had our FIRST kiss was that I was not going to make love until I was married. I think he really fell for me at that point. He said, "That's what I love so much about you". Later on, there was a man that was flirting with me, an American man, a very, very, good looking man. He worked with us as well. Before I met my husband, I would have totally been into this guy. When he was flirting with me I realized that I loved my future husband because I wanted nothing to do with this guy. I was excited to tell my guy and when I did, he got angry with me and told me that I was not as innocent as he had thought. ???? I had to scratch my head on that one. I never tried to come off as the innocent virgin type, I deffinately was not a virgin, but I guess that's what I was precieved as. I made the abstinence till marriage call later on in my life.

Anyways, to make a long story longer, the things that I know about MY Korean man is that he is very conservative (missionary style only and in the bedroom only). I did get him to do it once in the livingroom, but after being with him for so long, we moved into the bedroom on my request because I became uncomfortable. He has very strong conservative values and he is very traditional. He is the MAN when it comes to who is boss, but he wants me to make most of the decisions, and he is not very mechanical. I had to put the desk and the entertainment center together. I have to clean all of the horse stalls, and I have to clean out the fish tank when it is due. He prefers me to cook, but he complaines about the mess that I make when I do. If he doesn't want to bother with the mess that day he will do the cooking. He's a good cook, he hates dirt, he has a very short temper, he likes to study, he is very fashion sensitive, he spends an hour in the bathroom every morning to get ready for work. But one thing is, he responds well to being taken care of. If I do what he expects of me, he will do anything I ask of him. There is still a strong language barrier between us. When we/I try to communicate (I notice that he doesn't like to deal with problems, he just wants me to figure them out and make them go away), but he does know when something needs to be dealt with and through enough nagging, he will give me the attention needed to resolve an issue. I think he only does it because he knows it bothers me. I love him and he loves me, there is no doubt in my mind about the strength of our relationship. Divorce doesn't exist in his world. It seems to me that for the most part, the issues we are having in our marriage are the same issues any one would have in a marriage. I hope this post helps.

sosan garam's wife said...

I think you haven't been hanging out in the right places to find Korean men and foreign women. One difference I notice is that foreign men and Korean women hang out in foreign bars, foreign coffee shops, and with other mixed couples usually.

My husband and I rarely go to foreign bar hangouts. He would go if I asked, but I don't want to hang out with foreign men and my foreign and Korean female friends spend time with us elsewhere. He doesn't speak English very well and I hate the way foreign men frequently talk about Korean men, sometimes right in front of him.

Another reason why it's difficult to spot Korean men and foreign women together is that Korean men aren't as physical in public. I've dated three Korean men quite seriously, but only one (now my husband) showed me affection in public. He still holds my hand in public, and kisses me goodbye at the train station or airport. Because of that, Koreans usually think he's Japanese, Chinese, even Hispanic, but definitely not Korean.

It happens a lot more than people think, but it isn't as obvious. I can name at least ten foreign women I know who married Korean men. We all met them in different ways. Hardly any of our spouses were our students. The women are all shapes, sizes, and nationalities. As far as I know, eight of those marriages are happy.

Anonymous said...

hello...........I was stationed over in Korea for three years and I met my husband there. We both lived at the same camp and just met through a friend and been together ever since. January 27, 2006, is our one year anniversary but we have been together since 2003. He was a KATUSA and I was a GI.girl. We hit it off real good. He was very open and spoke real good english. His family is real honest with me and love me alot. He is very arrogant and cocky but that's just cause he knows he looks good and has an american wife. When Koreans would see us they would stare in dis-belief and shock. Alot of the guys would stare in jealousy and their girlfriends would hit them and tell them to stop staring. We look real good together. Damn, he is fine as hell.. Not all Asians have small dicks..His is 7.3..so that is just a MYTH..
chow...baby,...

Anonymous said...

Hey....I'm a Hispanic 23 y/o girl involved with a drop dead gorgeous 31 y/o Korean guy....
We've been dating for about 2 years. So, where do I start?...I want to say that we consider ourselves to be each others true love; each others soul mate. He's incredible--He was born and raised in Korea and came to the United States just 6 years ago. Even though he comes from such a strict family and culture...He's so open minded. We just click in any way that you can think of--careers, mentally, emotionally---and yes god yeah...SEXUALLY....We do the craziest things. GOD, I'm all over the place w/ this message, but I just want to say that not all Korean guys are the same. I might just have to agree that they like small, skinny girls...other than that my honey is different!

Anonymous said...

I'm a Canadian living in Seoul currently dating a Korean man. I met him through another foreigner and we hit it off from the start, but truth be told he didn't think he would be able to date me. It took our mutual friend's suggestion to make him realize it was even an option.

Sure, we've had conflict that has been related to cultural issues, such as my being a little more assertive than he's accustomed to, but I've realized that it all balances out in the end as other issues common with foreign men don't even come up. Although we've heard the rumors that Korean men change the most after marriage, for now, he's the sweetest, most thoughtful guy I've ever dated.

Anonymous said...

I would just like to say that I think Korean men are oh -so -fine and I am even thinking of EXPATRIATION just to get close to them! They drive me absolutely crazy! :). I hope they like foriegn women ;).

knobfest@yahoo.com said...

I'm a gay male of mixed descent. I think some Korean guys are very handsome and would love to be friends with or even have a Korean boyfriend. I met one guy when I was working in atlanta. His family had the cleaning contract for the building I worked in. I worked late often and he would come in to clean up and he never spoke. I made a point of saying hello to him and eventually we got to the point where we talked everynight. He was a cool guy and he was surprised that I spoke to him. He says people in the building usually ignored him like he wasn't there.
I've dated people of other races most of my life and sometimes of other cultures. I've come to realize that people who will date someone of another culture are in their own way trailblazers. They might struggle with the cultural baggage but they are the exceptions already. I would have dated the guy at work but I had no idea if he was gay. I just liked him. He was "good people".

myMaria said...

Im dating a Korean man for more than a year now, he was my second Korean boyfriend, and they were both different. I was then 22 with my first bf and he was 36 and he's never had any girlfriend before so he was really serious that time, must be with the pressure to get a girl, which I know of their culture only recently (yes), it was my first time in Korea and I didn't know any single Korean word, and he doesn't know how to speak English. But he was really into it, everytime we talk he had his notebook with him and his babel-fish translator and we know how babel-fish sometimes works in translating phrases, so it's more difficult to understand what he wants to express. And he's had books with him in his car, english-korean dictionary,etc. and when I left to another city like in Daejoen or in Daegu and he was living in Seoul, he would visit me me once a week, but that time my mind wasn't really into it that I brokeup with him. And now I'm back here in Korea I made up my mind that I don't like Korean guys anymore, but last year there was this guy who goes to my place every night, even stay up as late as 4 or 5 am to treat me and my friends to meal or drinks, and he was really cute, I'm now 26 and He is 30. So I fell in love with him and we were bf and gf in no time, everything was fine, but his friends think it's weird and difficult to have a relationship with a foreigner, though I am also Asian, a Filipina, still communication is a big barrier,a dn I still don't know enough Korean and just my luck he's no better than my first boyfriend in English language. and this time, he doesn't seem to put any effort in learning the language, but though one time I went to his place and caught him watching English Cafe on tv. We had our cool off a month after because I demanded more of his time which he can't give, but we got back together after a month that time I started to study Korean so I can talk with him and he was glad that I did and he introduced me to his sister, his only sibling but not to his parents, because the girl that they introduce to their parents are those that they will marry and I'm not sure if we will though he asked me several times if I can live in Korea or If I can marry him I know too that deep inside him he's not sure if he can keep the relationship for long, and when I go back home, if we'll still make the effort for our future together. He's Buddhist, i'm Catholic and they don't know what Christmas is except the tree and Santa Claus, but last year he and his sister visited me 3 hrs away to spend the Christmas eve together, and next week on Christmas eve, I'll spend it with him because he said he knows how important Christmas is to me. damn, I love him but its too difficult to have a relationship with a Korean guy, especially when you go out with his friends and they would all talk and I feel left out though mostly all he talks to his friends about was me and when I start talking to them in English they would tell him to teach me Korean. I know I could have a much better relatioship with him if I really want to sometimes it's just up to the foreign woman to work things out rather than to give up, he would appreciate it if one exerts the effort to learn his language, his culture. He said he likes me because I'm not the whiny type, He likes me because I'm the "cowboy type" but I do dress up, must be because he feels comfortable being with me, he can get me to go with him to the finest restos at night and during the day when we're in a hurry we jst get inside any kimpap house and enjoy the food just as much.well it's a long one i wrote here, just to say that Korean guys are not to be generalized, those who just want to be with Korean girls think it's more convenient that way, no hassle with their family and friends and most of all no need for them to get crazy learning English language..well, I often have communication problem with my ex boyfriend back home and we both speak the same language!

Anonymous said...

I am a caucasian female and I have been working with a few Korean men within a six month period and have had sexual encounter with two of these guys. Let me tell you that the first Korean man I was with is twentyone years my senior, but was one of the hottest and most sensual sexual experiences that I have ever had. And the second guy wasn't too bad either.Something about Korean men is so sexy perhaps the language barrier and not being able to directly communicate. On the other hand, Korean men do seem to just want to fool around with a white girl just for the satisfaction of doing so, but still if you both expect the same outcome, what is the harm. I still think about this older Korean man and what he did to me I get really turned on. Ever since then I have had a sort of Korean fetish.

Anonymous said...

Am a black Canadian female. I think Korean guys are hot. I dated a Korean guy for over a year. he was really sweet, then went mental on me. He prepared our wedding without even asking me to marry him. I heard about it when one of his buddies congratulated me on our upcoming nuptials. I broke the relationship off when I found out. He really lost it. He tried killing me and himself (murder-suicide). Luckily I was able to get away. The scary thing is that my female Korean friends thought I should give him another chance because what he did was considered to be an extremely romantic gesture. I haven't dated anyone for about 6 months now. I'm really scared to get into a relationship with another Korean man. I have never believed in stereotypes before...BUT because of what my Korean female friends said, am worried that violence + breaking up are a norm with Korean men. I know am being paraniod, but now am just too freaked out to date any guy, Korean or any other race. Don't want the next guy to finish me off^^

Anonymous said...

Hi, I am a Singaporean Chinese and is fascinated with Korean men. I think despite some being very domineering and male-chavinistic, they are cute and work really hard.

I would definitely want to have a korean guy as a friend ( if fate allows, perhaps we can be closer), but I am worried about the language barrier and cultural differences.

Besides, I am not as demure and sweet as those Korean girls. I am probably more assertive.

Does anyone of you thinks that I stand a chance?

Anonymous said...

It seems everyone except real Korean females commented on this posting.
I am a Korean girl living in US and somewhat feel uncomfortable about the streotyping of Korean girls dating with Caucasian guys.
As far as I know, they date with them because Caucasian guys are not generally too dominating over females and obsessed with the virginity issue.
Quit many Korean guys are extremely traditional about sex and thus show double standards between men and women.
Although Korea has a libertine culture for men especially in the business context and Korean guys think that they are allowed to enjoy it even during marrige, they tend to impel girls to keep the value of sexual temperance.
IMHO, this point lead some Korean girls to be fed with their Korean counterparts and avoid "enjoying with them."
Also it is true that Korean guys are not so sweet and gentle as white ones. Many of them preserve the traditional idea of confucian masculinity which would seem dominating and inconsiderate to contemporary girls But I can't deny that some Korean girls may have white fantasy as South Asian girls have Korean fantasy. Also admittedly, some Korean guys are really nice as some anonymous people here implied.

Anonymous said...

It's a really old blog, but here's my two cents..

I'm not in Korea, but I do have a Korean bf (Korean born and raised) who I met while living in Malaysia. In my experience, although we saw each other every day (we weres studying in the same place) and there was clear chemistry in my mind, I did have to make 'the first move'. It didn't take much, just a sign that I really was interested, then he did the pursuing.

It turned out he was also concerned about his English, so it helped that in my 'move' I tried speaking to him in Korean, and I was absolutely crap. Gave him confidence, I guess..

(I'm a 'western' female, thin, but also 5'8").